Interview with Ed, March 12, 2007
Interview with Ed Boyer (excerpts)
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Attraction of Karaoke
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Melaena: So what first got you interested in karaoke?
Ed: hmmm.
Melaena: Do you remember?
Ed: Uh… From a customer point of view… I think, just cause it’s the easiest way for me to sing, without having to deal with a bunch of band members. Which I didn’t really know before, until I got into karaoke, into the singing scene. It’s always there, the band’s on time… and it’s pretty cheap entertainment.
So yeah, other than that, I don’t think anything super-attracted me to it. Not such a long time ago.
I’ve seen it grow though.
Melaena: Yeah? In how long?
Ed: Over the last three, four years, I’ve seen it grow, and I don’t know what other people’s motivation is, but I have a guess on… a few theories anyway. I guess that the Canadian and American Idol that just sort of, they really made people… uh…I don’t know. I think it’s made it real for some people. “Hey baby, I could do something.” There’s a lot of people that need a rude awakening. But, yeah, a lot of it wanna try, I think.
Melaena: Yeah.
Ed: So I’ve noticed that, it’s sort of increased the karaoke scene, but spread it out, from little pub to little pub, so there’s a lot of little puddles instead of a big lake.
Where Rosario’s was in the beginning, ten years ago, that was the place to go, that and maybe two others in the city. And as it’s become more popular, as I said, you know, maybe five years ago, it’s sort of spread out. You can close your eyes and turn around and throw a rock and you’ll find a pub that’s doing karaoke one or two nights a week somewhere.
How to be a DJ
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Melaena: To be a successful DJ. Which obviously you are.
Ed: To be a successful DJ… I.. there’s a couple of things. I don’t think you need to have everything, but regardless if you’re a DJ or a KJ, a karaoke jockey, or anything that’s sort of a combination of that…
Melaena: What’s the difference?
Ed: The difference…I think it’s big. Regardless, you still have to have a microphone presence. So if you’re interreacting with the crowd, or the patrons, you’re going to do better. A karaoke jockey has to sing. A DJ doesn’t have to. Never. When do you hear a DJ sing? Unless it’s just for fun sometimes, just between songs.
Karaoke Stigma
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Melaena: So there’s a difference in pay, then [between a DJ and KJ]? Is that what you were saying?
Ed: I… the consensus that Colin and I have when we are doing our promotion for different places… there’s like a stigma with karaoke. Bar owners think that it’s cheesy.
Melaena: Okay. All bar owners?
Ed: No. Not all bar owners. But I find that… I don’t make the generalizations, I just see them. But the people that owned or managed bars in the early 80s were all about live bands. Very cool. Very expensive. Okay? So if you don’t pack the house every night you’ve got to have a different alternative for your entertainment for your bar. So you look at a one-man band. Which is still expensive. Or one-man entertainers, or you go to the level down, is probably a DJ. Cause a DJ’ll fill your four hours in the evening and you can pay him less than what a live band will be.
And then the next step down from there, in regards to what would be paying out as a bar manager or a bar owner, karaoke comes in next.
And that is because you’re not guaranteed entertainment. You’re guaranteed you’re going to get your DJs as entertainment. And that’s the thing Colin and I want to definitely try to… we try to accomplish with our show. Is, if we’re weak with singers, which happens, and from week to week you don’t know what you’re getting, we have to try and provide some sort of entertainment. Because there are people that sit around and don’t sing. So we want to try and do something for them.
And that’s… I think for us, that’s why we can demand a little bit more in terms of what we do.
DJ interactions
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Ed: We talk a lot of crap. And as we get our regulars there, as we know them, we’re able to interact with them a little bit more. And maybe make fun of them a bit. (laughs)
Melaena: (laughs) Do they like that?
Ed: Uh… Yeah, as long as we make fun of ourselves first.
Melaena: Okay.
Ed: Yeah, cause we don’t want to insult anybody.
DJ Singing
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Ed: As your karaoke room expands and you have 20, 30 singers, there’s no need for me to sing anymore. I will take myself out of that. As soon as I hit ten singers, I don’t need to sing.
Melaena: Right.
Ed: And the only time I would sing then is if somebody requests something. But that’s part of my schtick for my show. Is, if you want to hear a song I’ll sing it for you. So I will be the human jukebox. And there’s not very many things that I can’t do. There’s things that I will refuse to do. But I know most of the songs.
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Ed: Our people have a blast. See, our objective is not necessarily to bring you here, we don’t necessarily do that, but we want to keep you here.
Melaena: Right.
Ed: And our regular people haven’t left. They show up every week. Obviously they’re liking it…
Melaena: They’re die-hards.
Ed: So that’s a good sign for us.
Community
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Melaena: What about praise? When you have a good singer, or a nervous singer, how do you decide what to say?
Ed: Oooh. I can tell the nervous singers because they usually will announce that to me. They will say “Oh, I’m nervous”, or “Oh, I don’t know if I can do this”, and they’ll definitely express their apprehensions about doing this song. So at the beginning of it, I will say, “This is a first time singer, and you make sure you treat her extra special.” I never get anybody—nobody boos. And if anybody ever—
Melaena: Does that happen at other places?
Ed: I’ve had some people boo, or say “Sing louder!” or whatever, and I have to go and talk to them after.
Melaena: What do you say?
Ed: I just… I’ll just tell them that, you know, she’s got balls, she’s up singing. Give them a break. And encourage them, or I’m going to embarrass you on the mike. Especially if they’re going to sing too. If they’re singing, then I will definitely embarrass them. But usually the singers have respect for the other singers. It’s the hecklers every once in a while that might yell or something.
But I find if you’re just here, and you’re not singing, you’re a special kind of person, you know, to sit the whole night. Like our book reader guy that’s always here reading his book, the old guy. If you ever see the old guy in the corner he always reads his book. He never sings, but he must like it somehow, so he’s not going to heckle.
The hecklers, if they just hate these people because they can’t sing, they usually leave. And then they go to another bar that has live entertainment or something that’s more to their standard.
Melaena: Right.
Ed: So… yeah, I don’t really have too many jerks. For the nervous singers, I just make sure they get applause before and after, and just try to make sure that the culture is, after every song, you give a gold clap. That would be the culture even if it wasn’t something worthy of a golf clap. Just to say “You got up there”. And the culture in this room, for example, is pretty good. Everyone will give a little bit of a cheer or a whistle after. No one has to go crazy, I don’t need you to jump up and down and stamp your feet or light your lighters.
Melaena: Right.
Ed: And the performance will bring that out; if somebody’s performing really well, then people will take notice. So, yeah, in regards to positive affirmation after every song, I think that’s sort of built in. And I’ll say something pretty standard after every song. And if it sucked, which, they do, I’ll say, “That was an awesome song”, right? “Good job, good song selection”, cause there’s something positive out of everything. I mean, there’s some that I’m speechless, like “What just happened here, for the last three minutes?” It’s very rare. Maybe one a night, you’ll get one. But there’s some positive in every performance. Even the ones that suck really bad. But they embrace their suck, and they’re working it, and dancing around and high-fiving people, I mean, I’ve got to give them credit for that.
Melaena: What do you think draws people to karaoke?
Ed: Mmmm…. (long pause)
Melaena: Or keeps them coming back?
Ed: What keeps them coming back.
Melaena: If that’s easier.
Ed: Well, I mean, I think it’s an easy study in human behaviour. Everyone will choose… will have a choice in front of them, pain or pleasure. Everyone always takes the pleasure to avoid pain. The path of least resistance. And once they find some place that they feel comfortable, where they’re accepted, and they get the juice, the energy, the praise, the appreciation, the attention, and they feel comfortable in that, that keeps them coming back.
And I don’t care if that’s in a relationship with a significant other, or whether that’s your relationship with your teacher or mentor, or your local karaoke host. If you get good positive energy from that, and you leave the place feeling good, and you’ve got a lot of pleasure from that, that’s imprinted, and that creates a habit very very quickly.
Melaena: So who do you think these pleasure associations are being formed with, at karaoke?
Ed: Um… the camaraderie between the customers and the appreciation that they have amongst the singers, and the waitresses, the staff have a lot to do with it, and the host. If they feel that we’re friends, um… they’ll come back to a host, or a venue, rather than who has a better song selection. Or who has better sound. Or who has a better stage, or who has a bigger screen. All of that is all pretty much a wash, because everyone has something good in their room. Whether it’s a small room, because I get to sing more, or if it’s a big room, because I have more of an audience. They find what they want.
And I have customers here like Michelle, she comes to all my shows, so whether it’s this one or the ones that I do on the west end, or the one at the university, she just shows up.
Melaena: Wow.
Ed: Whether she likes the song selection, or whether she likes the way that I treat her…
Melaena: Which Michelle was that? The young one?
Ed: Michelle. “Try a Little Tenderness”. She’s right here, she’s with the grey-haired guy.
Community
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Ed: I won’t play doubles, ever. So if “I Will Survive” has been done at 8:00, another person can’t sing “I will Survive” that night. That’s got to wait until tomorrow.
Melaena: Do you tell them that?
Ed: Yes. As soon as I see the song: “Oh! You want to sing “I Will Survive”? I’m sorry, so and so sang it earlier. Pick another one.”
Melaena: Why is that?
Ed: You don’t want to create any animosity between the people. I don’t want any jealousy, and I don’t want any fights, and I don’t want… People aren’t here to show up anybody else. They’re usually here for themselves. And if they’re performing… if someone really really insists, I might go and ask the other person do you mind. Usually it’s “Oh, whatever, I don’t care”.
But usually what happens, is somebody hears this: “Oh! Shit, I didn’t know they had that song in there! That’s good! Oh, but listen to her, she sucks. Oh, I can sing that way better.” And then they go up and they try to show… they come up and ask me, Oh, I want to sing that song.
I don’t need that vibe in the room. Cause I don’t want anybody to not come back because they felt uncomfortable because they felt like….
This is their living room. I want this to be their living room for the next four hours, so I want them to feel as comfortable as they would in their own living room, and you wouldn’t have somebody come into your own house and make you feel uncomfortable and keep them there.
Community
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Ed: [referring to good vibes] And that has a lot to do with our customers. I can’t do anything about that.
Melaena: Yeah.
Ed: Except encourage the ones that are good in the room, and I won’t discourage anyone, but I might not give them as much attention.
Melaena: How would you pick the people not to give as much attention to?
Ed: If they’re negative, yell at people, or if they’re overdrunk and aggressive, or if they insist, Oh, you’re singing a song that they like and they try to sing with you, or sing overtop of you, or try and grab the mike without permission, you know… people that always want to jump in front of everybody else… Like some people will—
Once the show gets busy, there’ll be some people that want to bribe you.
Melaena: (laughs) Does that happen?
Ed: Lots of times.
Melaena: Really. Cause they don’t want to wait?
Ed: They don’t want to wait. “I want to sing now, so what’s it going to cost me?”
Melaena: Wow.
Ed: I usually figure it this way. You want to bump ten people, ten people you want to jump up, that’s five dollars a drink, in case they get pissed off at me, so that’s fifty dollars. And if nobody complains, nobody complains. But if they all complain, then that fifty dollars goes to their drinks. I get them a drink each.
That’s how I base it. I’ve had a hundred dollar tip before. Or a hundred dollar bribe; it’s not a tip. Bribe.
Size
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Melaena: So I guess there’s a fine line between wanting a place that’s really busy and wanting a place where you can sing a lot. Do most of the people here want to sing a lot?
Ed: Every karaoke place, everyone wants to sing a lot.
Gender
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Melaena: So what about men versus women singing? Do you find there’s a difference? Which one sings more? Which group?
Ed: Hmm. (long pause) I think there’s more girl, female karaoke-goers.
Melaena: Singers, or the audience?
Ed: Singers. And audience, always there’s more men in a bar than women. Always. Always. So, yeah… that is a difficult question, because it’s a matter of confidence, or a matter of overcoming a fear, and that is not gender-related at all, that has nothing to do with it.
Communities
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Melaena: And what about the little communities that form? Does that happen everywhere?
Ed: That is the weirdest thing ever. Yes, there is a weird karaoke subculture. They’re different people… they’re very encouraging of each other, and (long pause) so careful about not hurting anybody else’s feelings. It’s like a big group ego, that sort of beats. And it grows together.
Melaena: Do you think it’s a delicate ego?
Ed: It’s very delicate, and then when it gets big enough, or even too big, then they start sabotaging it. “Oh, he can’t sing that good,” or “I’m better than him.” It’s funny how you watch all the little fish that start a show, and they’re very nervous about their songs. And then they get better about their songs because they’ve been encouraged. And now they start to sit together. Where they were all at different tables, they start to sit together. And now I’ve already started seeing some separation.
Like Alid, sits at a different table than Tie now. They’re both on the same soccer team, but one part of the soccer team sits on this side, and one part of the soccer team sits at the other table. Now I don’t know if that has to do with the women that are there, or if it has to do with “Okay, we are big enough now as a unit that we can now separate and we don’t have to be the “team” anymore.” “I am Alid in the team”, and “I am now Tie”, and everyone’s getting a little bit bigger.
And their song repertoire expands a little bit more, and they’re willing to try more things, and then they start to banter with each other, say, “Well, you could sing that, and you could sing that”. So right now it’s very, very good and there’ll be a time when it’ll start to fragment.
Melaena: And you’ve seen that before.
Ed: Yeah.
Melaena: So the same people that are encouraging each other…
Ed: …will start to fight against each other after a while.
Melaena: Interesting. And then where does that end?
Ed: They each have their own big tables then.
Melaena: Okay. So once they’re at their own big tables they don’t fight any more? They don’t bicker?
Ed: Another ego will grow. Another group ego.
Melaena: Okay. So it just keeps growing and splitting, and growing and splitting?
Ed: Yes. And then when the room gets too big, and they’re upset, then they’ll either move to another show, or, we see it a lot of times, there’s a revolving door of the part-timers, and they usually find a boyfriend or a girlfriend, they end up not coming to the bar as much, and then a new group of younger ones come in that are sort of the exact same thing. And they grow with me for a two or three years and they go away and they find their own thing. And yeah, for six years, I’ve had quite a few groups of 19-22 year olds, usually girls.
Melaena: Here?
Ed: No, I haven’t been here long enough. My other shows.
